Don't Force It: How to Get into College without Losing Yourself in the Process

Live Coaching: Why this school?

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Choosing the right college can feel overwhelming, especially for creative students exploring paths like art and animation. In this episode, I chat with a parent navigating this very journey—we unpack how to center student interests, explore interdisciplinary options, and look beyond just academics when building a school list. Tune in for a practical, thoughtful conversation that might just reframe how you think about fit.

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Parent:

It's tough to be around other parents who have a lot of anxiety expressed daily, and at the same time having the school process be so different from my own from a gazillion years ago, where I feel like my college process and conversation was really about your becoming and an opportunity to continue your growth as a young person. And now the conversation even in the colleges, is saying, We want you to find, you know, come here and be all these things, but the process itself has such an emphasis on why this school and you know, what do you want to do and be? And when I'm like, isn't this about still becoming?

Sheila Akbar:

Hi, folks, we're back. I hope you've all had a great summer and are settling in for back to school season and a wonderful fall and more interesting conversations on this podcast. So you know, a lot has been happening in education. I am not going to try to sum it up, because I'm sure as soon as I say something, something will change and make that information obsolete or irrelevant. So rest assured, I will be talking about some of the impacts to higher education on this podcast, but not today. Today, we're going to start with something a little lighter, something a little bit more holistic and grounded in what parents are probably experiencing right now, especially if they have a senior, even a rising junior. I'm talking with a friend of signets. She has been a client for a while, and I've known her personally for a while, and she reached out to me with a question, just sort of feeling stuck on helping her son build his college list. And as you'll hear in our conversation, there are a lot of factors at play that are creating the stuckness that she's feeling. So we unpack a lot of them. She got to a great place and felt much more relaxed about this whole process by the end of the conversation. Of course, there's more work and research to be done to help him finalize that list. But I think she came away sort of understanding what her lens should be on, whether this process is successful or not, and how much she might need to let go of the reins a little bit, because her son knows what he wants and knows the kind of environment he's he's looking for, or will know it when he sees it. So this is one of those live coaching episodes, which I just totally adore doing. So if you have a question that you really want to sit down and talk with me about, please reach out and we'll record it. We'll anonymize it and get your questions answered. And you know, if you have that question, it's likely that 100 other people have that question too. So you getting your question answered can also allow us to help even more people. So please consider sending us a note and submitting a question for live coaching. All right, with that, I'm gonna tip you into this conversation and I'll see you on the other side. Why don't we start by you just kind of telling us what's going on and where you feel you need some clarity or support.

Parent:

Sure. So I really appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation. I will. I'll start just to tell you a little bit about me, just to give some context from my perspective and how I'm coming to this conversation. It's certainly, of course, then centered around my student, that said, I'm, you know, I'm pretty involved parent, but I don't hover right. I've had the luxury of having a kid who wouldn't say he's the most self motivated, but he keeps on track. He's doing really well in school. He's socially, very comfortable where he is, you know, never late to school. So like, I've got a student who's really doing very well in school, and I've had three years of this, you know, in high school. And so as we look ahead to the college process, as I imagine many parents can appreciate, it's hard not to get wrapped up in the energy that others bring to the conversation about college. And I mean, I absolutely, I'm sure I share with every parent the desire for my kid to find a school college environment where he will be excited to be there, he will be get quickly and comfortably settled in and acclimated, have an amazing set of friends and have an academic experience that is going to be fulfilling and prepare him for life after college and actually making a living. So I'm sure I share that. And so as I mentioned, it's tough to be around other parents who have a lot of anxiety expressed daily, and at the same time having the school process be so different from my own. From a gazillion years ago, where I feel like my college process and conversation was really about your becoming and an opportunity to continue your growth as a young person. And now the conversation, even in the colleges, is saying we want you to find, you know, come here and be all these things, but the process itself has such an emphasis on why this school, and you know, what do you want to do and be? And when I'm like, isn't this about still becoming and so that's a lot of why I have the questions that I have today, which is, how do I help my student continue on the path that he's been on and being himself and his comfortable self? I don't want to introduce stress at the same time, it says, you know, a really important time to have a good list to work with, right? That's well matched. It's not about like, get attached to a single school who has that luxury, because you may or may not get in, and if you do, you may or may not be able to afford it, right? So how do I help my student find a well matched List of 10 schools? You know, like a number of schools, where he will he may find some favorites among the group, but it's not a single favorite. And even among those, have some good choices on the other end of the application process to finally make a decision. So hopefully that's helpful context for how even thinking about this stage of the process.

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah, I think it's super helpful. Thank you for sharing and setting this up so nicely, because I think literally, every parent feels the way you do like I don't want to induce introduce stress, but I know there are things that need to get done. I want to make sure he has all the opportunity. Of course, you do right? He's your son, and there is this sort of looming, like those other parents are like intense, and I don't want to be like them, and I also don't want to be I don't know this is maybe too harsh a word, infected by the like anxiety they feel, right? Because you can see that that is not productive. So, yeah, I think this is a really common situation, and I think, you know, my advice in this situation is to try to center the student as much as possible, right? And that doesn't mean ignore what you're feeling. It means understand what you're feeling and what's connected to, you know, something real or something imagined, what's connected to what he wants versus maybe what you want, even if it's on the surface doesn't seem that way, right? What's coming from your experience or your expectation of what this experience would be like for him, versus what is what is he actually experiencing, and what does he want? And that's hard, and maybe you need a therapist to do that with you. That's always my advice.

Parent:

Sheila, come on, sorry.

Sheila Akbar:

I don't have a silver bullet for that one, all right, but let's get a little more specific here, right? So your son has always enjoyed art, animation, that's kind of thing. But you guys have kind of come to the conclusion that a pure art school is maybe not the ideal environment. Can you say more about that?

Parent:

Sure, yes. So my student has definitely, I think he's identified as a quote creative but that's such a, you know, a catch all word these days for many, many things. And so for him, it's actually manifest in two or kind of it comes to life in two particular interests. One in his writing. He really enjoys telling stories, fictional writing, creating stories. And a lot of it, honestly, is in his head. It's not always in the on a written page, but it's really storytelling. So let's call it that. He's also got an interest and somewhat of a passion for D animation, which is very specific, not animation broadly. And so as we start looking at schools and programs that have very structured approaches to art. We're finding as we initially looked at it's more of the art focused schools that there are some programs that are very studio art focused. So more like, I'll call it, for lack of a better word, traditional, with what you might think of so like painting and photography, and you're in a studio, and you create, like a physical art studio, where you're creating things with physical materials. Then other programs seem to be very focused on, certainly 3d animation when you're which is a little more stemmy, I'll say, and like coding and computer code and programs. And then you've also got this area, broad area of like digital arts, which very often it was we read these descriptions and college programs are focused on, like graphic design. And so it seems and feels to us as just still be. Very new to this space that the art schools are, they kind of push you in a direction. I've actually heard a similar dynamic from a friend of mine whose son is a musician, and he plays two instruments, and schools he's applied to are like, You got to pick one, and the kids like but I love both. So there's a structure that's imposed that, at least on the as you looking the outside in, even though the schools and their message are like, come in, you know, blend it all together and find what's going to work for you, it's hard to identify that. So as we look at the art schools, and even, you know, SCAD characterizes their mantra as you were a school for the creative careers, right? So it doesn't have to be art school in the same way we've thought about traditionally. But my student also has these other interests. And as I mentioned, that storyteller in the writing these other things, and he himself, has said, I'm not sure if Art School is the place to be, because we visit a number of them, and we're starting to visit some more liberal arts colleges. And so as we look at the liberal arts colleges, they, too, have these very seemingly closed, boxed ways of describing how you might pursue some of these disciplines. So if your English or even creative writing is still very like literature focused and so in or maybe it's film and digital studies in another school, not the liberal arts school. So just looking at the structures, it's very confusing to figure out, how do you what are even the questions that we may ask to see, how could my student explore, learn more, to understand, hey, I want to develop these, you know, skill sets that are sort of related. I want to blend them somehow yet he doesn't have an awareness at this stage of like, here's how I want to apply that in work, you know, to like, then even go into the application and say, here's why this school that's going to get me to that point. So it's a confusing space to be in.

Sheila Akbar:

So let me reflect back to you what I'm hearing one is you're afraid, or you're worried, and maybe afraid is too strong a word that the schools that you sort of looked into so far sound like they're gonna pigeonhole him and perhaps pigeonhole him in a thing that he is not actually interested in, right? Like they're going to take his interest in the animation and make it into graphic design or something which he's not interested in, right? The other thing I'm hearing you're not really saying, is that he seems sure of those specific interests that he has right now, and there might be some underlying assumption that that is not going to change and or that he, even if he is studying, taking a class in graphic design, for example, maybe to meet meet a requirement, he won't get a chance to apply his creative writing skills or his 2d animation skills, right? Like I'm kind of hearing like a very, maybe overly literal interpretation.

Parent:

Yeah, I think what you've described in those two parts, I appreciate dissecting that or deconstructing that. I'll clarify on an age point I would say I'm less concerned that he the school will pigeonhole him, and more concerned about, how do we make sense of what the opportunity is given the way that the schools describe these programs and offerings in such a literal, kind of segmented way, if that makes sense?

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah, there's a, there's A, like, an air of like a vocational program, almost about it, right? Yeah. And I think that we should acknowledge that, you know, the arts are typically not the field people go in when they want to make lots and lots of money, and parents are often like, don't study art. You'll never have a job. You know, the stereotype of the starving artist. So a lot of these art schools are really trying to assuage those concerns by maybe going too far in the other direction, like you will have professional credentials in this field, and you will be able to walk into a job right when, you know, and there are some schools that are like that, that are very, you know, professionally oriented, their goal is, yeah, you're going to graduate, but you're going to graduate and go work at Disney, or you're going to go work at a gaming company, or whatever it may be, wherever they have relationships. But I would say the vast majority of art schools still are a place where, you know, it's a punk culture. People are doing whatever they're combining, whatever they're dabbling in lots of things. They're collaborating across departments, and it is much more of a place of exploration than their marketing materials may make it sound right. So that's one kind of thing, like we kind of have to get underneath that layer. So I wonder if some conversations with students. Questions about, what does day to day look like? How did you choose this? And how are you moving through this program? And what do you think you're going to do after could give you and your son a lot more clarity on the reality? Yeah. So what you can do is, I'm sure every one of these schools will help you do this. If you contact their admissions office and say, we did the tour, we did your virtual information session, whatever you did, we would really love to be connected with a student, perhaps a student who is majoring in 2d animation, or whatever it may be, and they'll put you in touch with somebody, right? And I think those could be really helpful conversations. And you wouldn't necessarily need to talk to somebody at every art school that you're thinking about, but maybe a couple of them, and you'll start to get a sense, sure. Oh, that's really helpful. So I will definitely say that's one thing we want to do. Okay, okay, student Convos, and I think it'll be a very, you know, low probability that they won't be able to put you in touch with the student. If that's the case, let me know. I know people that you know. You emailed me over a list of places that you're thinking about. I know people at almost every one of those art schools. So I you know, I can, I can introduce you as well.

Parent:

That's great. Really appreciate that you'd also mentioned. So there's the pigeon, pigeonholing, and then there's also the the exploration. You start talking about this as well. So when we look at the schools that are not liberal arts colleges, that are not otherwise designated or thought of as art schools. Many of them have art programs, or, you know, programs that have, you know, digital arts, creative writing, some of these different disciplines that certainly can be melded together. And a number of the schools even talk about, you know, the offerings as to have a dis interdisciplinary experience. However, it's still listed and spoken about as these siloed programs, right? So it's not as clear in learning about the schools how these things could come together. And I'm less concerned that my student is so. I mean, I would say I'm less convinced, rather that my student is convinced that this is all that he's interested in. I actually think he's really open to learning more. So how do we speak into that, or speak to that as we meet schools, particularly in anticipation of this question, when you in your application, why do you want to come to this institution?

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I have, I think, three ways to respond to this. So one is to really do the research. And I know I've probably shared the spreadsheet with you before. I've shared it in many webinars that I've done, but like, my college research kind of organizer trying to figure out, like, what are those pathways? And you could even get into the point where you're looking at numbers, right? Like, how many people are doing that interdisciplinary program, or how many people are in this department or that department, how many professors are cross listed between this department and that department? Right? There are ways you can kind of see it. There's another piece of research that I like to do when we're like, really sure this is a school that we want to invest the time in to do this level of research, but I try to look at their sort of news feeds to see what programs they're starting, buildings, they're building, certificates, they're offering, like, what are the new things that they're investing in? And an example of this is a Carnegie Mellon maybe two years ago, two three years ago, they literally broke ground on a new building that would house some arts programs, some science programs, and it might have been creative writing. Sounds like a great place for your account, right? Because they're literally building a building. And they were saying they were gonna they're building this building, they're putting all these things together because they want it to be this hub, this interdisciplinary hub of collaboration among those areas. So that's another way that you can see it. But I do also think the student conversations will help. The second thing I'd say is you can also look at what is the curriculum structure, okay? Because even though your son's eventually going to choose a major, usually they don't have to choose a major till their second year. The end of their second year, and most schools have some kind of set of requirements, right? They might be distribution requirements. There may be a set of core requirements where every student takes the same series of classes. Or on the distribution requirement side, it's like, from this category, you've got to take one class, and this category, you take two. When I was at Harvard, they used to call it the core requirements, but then now they've changed the way they talk about it, because it is like, choose from these various buckets, and that was the place where I did the most exploration, because I was thinking of majoring in what I was majoring in, I was exempted from certain categories, like the hard science category or the quantitative category, but I had to take a class on the history of a foreign culture. And to this day, this is still like the most memorable. My most favorite class at Harvard, I took a class on the Honor Code of the samurai.

Parent:

Oh, interesting.

Sheila Akbar:

It was so awesome. It was amazing. I learned so much, and had no idea history could be that fun, that cultural studies could be that enriching. And you know, I have been studying Persian and Arabic poetry. I've been doing cultural studies, you know, I just saw a different way of doing it. So in those requirements, there's necessarily going to be a lot of exposure to a lot of other things, right? So that might be something to think about. And maybe in you tell me, in this case, something like an open curriculum may or may not be a great fit, because those open curriculums, all you have to do is fulfill your major, and then you can do whatever you want with the rest of the credits you need for graduation. Right? There are no buckets to choose from or prescribed series of classes. So some students use an open curriculum to go deep on something that they're really interested in, but it's not their major, whether it's related or unrelated. Some people use that to supplement their major with like, Well, I really like storytelling, creative writing, but I'm also interested in the illustration side of it, you know, the 2d animation side of it, right? And so maybe they take, you know, more classes in that. So if your son is the kind of person who is going to actively curate that experience, and open curriculum could be great, right? If they're the kind of person who's like, I would rather someone just tell me what I need to do. I'm not going to explore unless someone makes me then, you know, distribution requirements or core curriculum might be better.

Parent:

I really appreciate that. You know, I can't remember which school it was, but I was looking at a website recently where, as you look in the different majors, they also had here some of the careers that students have gone into from this field, you know? So that's very helpful, because I think you know, especially when you think about animation, like, as you mentioned earlier, like you automatically think of Disney, right? Or even CGI, or like special effects and survey, but so many people that play so many different roles, yeah, in even a film, let alone any other type of production, that I think it's easy to assume I'm an animator, so I have to be the one drawing the images. Yet it could be an interest in being in an environment, but learning about what are some of the other jobs that people may have, yeah, and that you could still be in that environment, but you don't have the pressure of, I have to always produce these images, right? So that's and so I'm thinking about that particularly, as you mentioned, the cultural studies, the exposure other things, and even this idea of the open curriculum and supplementing it's helping me. I'm sure I it's not coming straight to my mind right in this moment, but it's thinking. And can think about what are some questions that we may ask, diff, you know, different questions then we could ask, as we continue to meet folks at the schools that really so it's less about like, how does this open curriculum work, and more about what are different ways that people are using the structure, right? The opportunity, because some to your point might be okay, I'm following a typical path, but supplementing or it's totally open, right? I've, like, created something brand new, and that kind of maybe also coming back to student conversations, that's really helpful and interesting perspective to have, even to have more informed questions for sure, because I think you we're at the mercy otherwise, of like, what they tell us, yep. And so really that exploration is, you know how to think about this. I love that. Thank you so much.

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah, that's really great. You know, another thing you just made me think about there is that many schools, I would venture to say the majority of schools, especially the small liberal arts colleges that you are also looking at, will have a sort of design your own major option, which does take, you know, some planning. And of course, there's, like, paperwork and all of this stuff. But, you know, they do exist, and that that could also be, even if it's at a school that doesn't have an open curriculum. You You are kind of insisting upon an open curriculum within whatever they offer.

Parent:

Sure, yeah. And I've heard tell, you know, in my travels, of people saying, you know, yeah, you know, my student went to the school, but also augmented what they're doing at another with offerings at another local school. So I think about that as well. You know, those, those schools that have, like, close neighbors, and you know, whether it's an they're already set up for, like, cross registration, or sometimes I've heard they're not, but when you explore, yeah, you never know what you could you know

Sheila Akbar:

What you could create, what pathways you could create or uncover, yeah, yeah. And then there's also study abroad, right? He could do a study abroad in Flo - I've had students do this study abroad in Florence. And do you know art history while you're there? Because what other, what better place would there be, right?

Parent:

Yes

Sheila Akbar:

And then come back and, you know, get back into whatever it else, you know, maybe that the school doesn't offer. But, yeah. There are a lot of there are a lot of opportunities. And, you know, in our sort of changing, rapidly changing world of work, like, we don't even know what the careers are gonna be like four years, like, what, what are they gonna be? There's a great book that just got published by Scott Carlson called Hacking College, and the subtitle is something like, why the major doesn't matter. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So it's also like just sort of advocating for broadening your perspective on, you know, less and less majors correlate to careers, right? Especially at a liberal arts college where you don't have, like, the super, let's say, practical majors, right? You're going to do something that's somewhat theoretical, and then you're going to get a job and have to learn that thing on the job. And then I also wanted to add, I know I'm kind of all over the place right now, but when it comes to technical skills in art, you don't necessarily have had to study it in college in order to do it right. There are courses, workshops, certificates. There are all sorts of ways to add to that toolbox. And let's not pretend that like whatever job he gets, like the skill set he gets it with is the skill set he's going to need in two years, sure, right? So I don't think we have to worry so much about, like, is he going to be able to develop all the skills he needs to get, like, some specific kind of position, because he's got summers, he's, there's, like, online courses, there's, you know, there's so many ways to kind of build those skills, right? And the the thing that's going to matter the most are the connections that his school network may provide, or his personal network may provide, and his portfolio, right?

Parent:

Yeah. And, you know, to that point too, as I mentioned earlier, not even really under, I mean, I certainly don't understand it all of the potential career paths or types of jobs, not even a path, just like a type of job, other than the ones that may seem most obvious to the average person. I Yeah, did you mention that network? And I would imagine that's how you really, I mean, I think about my own experience. That's how I really even learned about, oh, that's a thing, yeah, right, you didn't even know. Oh, and I think about my own journey, you know, I went when I started college, I thought I was gonna be a psychology major. I went to a liberal arts college. I ended up an econ major because I was like, but I've always been really strong in math, and I'm interested in business too. And then I ended up going to Wall Street, and they taught me everything I needed to know on the job, right?

Sheila Akbar:

Nothing you had learned prepared you for your

Parent:

Yeah, right. And then fast forward, I moved away from, like, banking and transactions, and I went to management consulting. Then I was doing, you know, relational work. And now I'm a COO, so I'm right back to people, right, right? So, like, the pause that we can but so much of my learning, as you're mentioning, as I'm reflecting, and as you've prompted me to is really sort of learning from others about, you know? So here are the core skills, here's some basics, but how, what are different ways and different environments where you can apply those skills, right? And that's really that part of that exploration. So that network, I know we think about it as like getting the job, but I'm also reminded about the importance of that network for learning,

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah, and him just having the kind of environment that makes him want to explore more, yeah, right, that exposes him to things. Because if he's in a place where he feels, you know, socially isolated, nobody is quite interested in the things he's interested in, he's less likely to pursue those things, right? But if he's in a place where the vibe is right and like, you know, there are people like him, and he's making all these really great friendships with people who have their own passions and interests, he's gonna get sparked by that, yeah, inspiration, right? And so it almost doesn't matter the major he chooses, to some extent, the school he chooses. It's really about the culture that he chooses.

Parent:

Yeah, and, you know, and I've certainly, as I mentioned, you know, we were already looking at the, you know, some liberal arts colleges. The more we're talking and the more that I've been thinking about this, I've always had a sense that liberal arts was sort of the way to go. And then we started thinking about the art schools, because I think it's easy for people to say, you're a creative you creative, you should go to art school. And even he, I think, to you already mentioned this earlier, like, how much of this is me versus taking his lead? And you know, the student sat, he himself is, I've heard him say, Well, I've only really most of schools I visit so far are the art schools I want to learn more about some of the others. So to me, that says that although he's enjoyed his time in visiting the schools, and he has been on a couple of campuses for like, summer programs and that are art focused, he himself. He's not convinced, right? I think that's really telling. And so that culture, and I wonder, you know, as we, you know, pivot. It, and start thinking about, like the application and really what he wants to speak to, in addition to what he wants to explore more in refining his list, really, maybe we sent her back to what is the college experience you want to have, right? Rather than what do you want to study? And how do we pick a school that has that narrow of an offering, or thinking about it as narrowly.

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah. And you know, the truth is, colleges tend to offer the same things. They may call them different things, right? They're like these little constellations of things. You'll be able to find, in most cases, anything that you are looking for. And you know, I know we started this conversation with you, saying, Well, how do we even write the why the school question? It doesn't have to be about academics, right? I mean, you can talk about academics if there is, like, a strong resonance with something that they're doing academically, but you can also talk about the school's values, the school's mission, the school's culture, people you've met there, you know, these are not long essays, so like, you know, 200 words to talk about the impression that the tour guide made on you as the kind of person you want to be. That's a great answer to this, you know, this question. It doesn't have to go into specifics about academics.

Parent:

Yeah, that's really helpful. Yeah. I think that's, you know, the conversations I've had, and certainly my own assumptions, but also conversations I've had with other parents, and we talked about parents earlier, where it does seem to be more often focused on, you know, my kid wants to do this, and so we're going to apply to this, such and such a school for this program. And I really appreciate that broadened perspective, particularly as I'm continuing to reflect about my student and taking his cues. Why this school that the values, the mission, the culture, you know, people you've met there, I'm thinking about how so he's been in private school since he started school, and certainly when he was a little we his parents made the decision, but when he got to middle grades, we had to make a transition, actually, early, earlier than middle school, but we, because we moved, we made a transition. And I remember very distinctly, as we visited three different campuses, he had a feeling, yeah, and he ended up at a school where he had this feeling, which we also had a feeling about. It was an amazing match for him. Yes, the same has been true in the high school process, where we, you know, certainly explored, and you know, you can't really go wrong at any of the schools that we had to choose from. But in the end, it's really about a feel. And guess what? He's been thriving, right? And so I really appreciate that reminder about, like, why this school, and how, you know, call it a spidey sense, or whatever it is.

Sheila Akbar:

It's, yeah, it's that magic of intuition, right, which I'm so glad you've allowed him to treat seriously, right? Because it's something that I think so often gets drilled out of us, and then somewhere in middle age, we're like, oh, wait, what's that little whisper I'm hearing? You know, we've been taught to ignore that voice, but that that honestly is like, No, I've got, literally, my arm hairs are standing up. I got chills right now. That is exactly what we're trying to do here at Cigna, is help students understand you have this amazing compass inside of you already, and you just need to take it seriously. And of course, there gotta be guardrails. They're teenagers. They don't sometimes reckless, but helping to train them to trust their intuition, trust those gut feelings. And, of course, do some planning, have some milestones, you know, project manage this thing. But you know what? What should be guiding it is that that feeling that you were talking about he had.

Parent:

Yeah, well, I feel a lot better.

Sheila Akbar:

I'm so glad. I'm so glad. And, you know, I can, I can talk with you a little bit more offline about specific schools that I might suggest you guys see, because there definitely are some that I would add to the list that you emailed over. But I think you know, recentering on that like you're going to have a feeling too, because you know your son, and you're going to you're also going to witness him having that feeling for himself, and that's going to light you up, right? And the the one word of caution I'll leave you with is, you know, you've got some fancy schools on your list that spend a lot of money on landscaping and new buildings and, you know, all the amenities and that can create that feeling, sure, right? So try to be a little discerning. Are we just so impressed by the way this place looks and the way we imagine will be when we're on this campus or is there that real heart feeling of, oh, these are my people, so keep that in mind too.

Parent:

Yeah, which speaks to back to those student convos, not just the visual tour, it's trying to, even if you can't get there physically, have a conversation and really ask, yeah. Yeah, that's really helpful.

Sheila Akbar:

All right. I hope you found that helpful everyone I really did have that moment where all the hair stood up on my arms because I was able to help her see what I really just want every parent to see, that your kid is going to be okay, your kid's going to be more than okay. They're going to be great. And yes, this process is stressful, and there's a lot of manufactured scarcity around the process that creates all of the stress and anxiety and, of course, competition. But if you can really focus on what your kid knows in their bones and how to help them, you know, tap into that, see what's going to help them, what's going to work for them. You can't go wrong. You really can't go wrong. You know, forget all of the conversations about prestige and rankings and this major or that major. You know, our world is changing, and these things are not going to matter as much in the future, and even if they matter in some circles or in some industries, that may not be the circle for your kid or the industry for your kid, right? So let's keep an open mind, and let's keep our students centered. And again, I really love having these conversations, so please reach out if you have a question you'd like to discuss with me. That's it for today. We'll see you next time. Thanks everyone.