Don't Force It: How to Get into College without Losing Yourself in the Process

The Insider’s Guide to College Visits: What Parents Must Know

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In today’s episode, college admissions expert Holly Schreiber and I discuss how to transform college visits into strategic tools. We break down the three key types of visits—Fit Finder, Test Drive, and Gut Check—and how they help students not only clarify their preferences but also stand out to schools. Tune in for expert advice on making the most of college visits and keeping your student engaged in the process!

Bio

Holly has tutored for over a decade and specializes in undergraduate and graduate admissions and is also an expert coach and test prep tutor. She received her BA in Russian from Bowdoin College and her PhD in Comparative Literature and American Studies from Indiana University. She has worked as a tenure track professor at the University of Maine, serving as a MA/PhD advisor and on the graduate admissions committee. Before and during her time with Signet, she has helped over 100 students navigate application essays, program selection, and testing. She loves acting and comedy. Her familiarity with executive function support, standardized testing, writing, and admissions makes her a great holistic advisor to both parents and students alike. She is funny, patient, and meticulously organized.


Access the recording of the full webinar and resources by visiting www.signeteducation.com/events

Access free resources and learn more about Sheila and her team at Signet Education at signeteducation.com or on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheilaakbar/.

Holly Schreiber:

I've often found when I start working with students, especially in freshman sophomore year, their ideas about what college is and what their life will look like, tend to be pretty vague, or they're influenced by what they've heard about other people or their parents own college experience, it has very little personal connection to them, and I think college visits are one of the best ways for them to start understanding what their preferences are and what's going To be the environments that they really thrive in.

Sheila Akbar:

Hey, folks, welcome back to the podcast. It is now officially after May 1, our seniors have committed to a college, and hopefully people are just feeling like a whole lot calmer because it's all settled. Of course, there are a lot of students who were on the wait list, and hopefully they'll be hearing good hopefully they'll be hearing good news soon, but I do hope that they are looking forward to whatever college they have committed to, and see a bright future ahead, because anything is really possible, almost at any school. Today, I'm sharing a talk that I gave with a colleague of mine named Holly around the idea of college visits, and you'll hear why I felt it was a topic important for us to discuss. But the couple things I want you to keep in mind before we get into the actual substance of today's episode is that a college visit is serving a purpose. It's not just something that you check off and say, Okay, we did our college visits. College visits need to fit into a strategy. And in our talk, that's what we're really focusing on. What kind of visit Do you want to do for what part of your strategy? How does it all fit together? And I think importantly, at the end, how do you get your kid on the same page as you or how do you get on the same page as your kid? Because we know there are a lot of differences of opinion around what kind of college a student should go to, and sometimes they're not always willing to share how they really feel with you. So we've got some great advice in here and some frameworks for you to follow. So take a listen. So Holly's got a wide range of talents and perspectives, and I'm really excited for her to join us today to talk about college visits. Thanks Holly.

Holly Schreiber:

Thank you, Sheila.

Sheila Akbar:

Here we go. Okay, this is one of those things that I'm always a little confused by when parents talk to me about it, because sometimes they're visiting because they know they have to visit, but not because they want to see a particular school and see if it's a fit for their student, or they want to explore a certain area of the country. There's no real goal behind the visit beyond saying, check we did our college visits. And so we see parents, you know, we're working with a student building their college list, and then the parent calls and says, we're going on college visits to, you know, these seven schools, and they're not schools that we've even been talking about. So there's a real disconnect sometimes between the entire college application process and where a visit fits in, how it can be helpful both to you and your students candidacy. So we're hoping to really bridge that gap today and clarify how you can really get the most out of these visits at different stages in the process. We really want to make sure we're using these visits strategically, and Holly is going to tell us a

Holly Schreiber:

All right, so as Sheila mentioned, sometimes college visits, you know, it's on the to do list, and people will do them just because they feel like they need to, or everyone around them is doing them. And I think it's so important to really reflect on what you're trying to get out of the business, and at what point in the college journey you're doing that, you know, with the application journey. So one of the biggest things in in visiting colleges is to help clarify preferences. I've often found when I start working with students, especially in freshman, sophomore year, their ideas about what college is and what their life will look like, tend to be pretty vague, or they're influenced by what they've heard about other people or their parents own college experience, it has very little personal connection to them, and I think college visits are one of the best ways for them to start understanding what their preferences are and what's going to be the environments that they really thrive in, because sometimes they just haven't thought about it. You know, how important is it that there's a gym close by that they can go to, that they're excited to go to regularly, and how much of an impact will that have on their well being and structuring their day. For some for me, a dining hall is really central. I love to eat. I love to share meals. It was really important for me to gather with other people and have that be a regular part of my life. And sometimes you don't realize it until you're looking at schools, what an influence that has to. So the idea is that you know, going early and exposing your kids to different types of campuses can really help them start to zero in on what they actually care about and why next? In a more strategic sense, when you're applying to colleges, some colleges do track your engagement with them. They track, you know, whether you visit campus. They may track whether you're doing online tours, you know, times that you interact with admissions officers. So going on a visit can be important for demonstrating interest when you're applying to a college. Some colleges track this. Some really care about it, and some do not. So that's one thing to when you're doing your research in the college list, to clarify so you know, as part of your research strategy, that turns into your application strategy, whether you need to be drawing attention to the ways that you're visiting colleges and interacting with schools. And finally, when we get to the actual applying, it is so vital that students understand why they're a good match for a school and why that school is a good match for them, and often they're going to have to articulate that pretty directly in a supplemental essay for many of their schools and students who have had a focused visit and really have have gained not only an insight about what that college had to offer, but how that is different from what so many other colleges have to offer, they're going to be an excellent position to be able to write a convincing essay that's believable and true about why they're a perfect fit for the school.

Sheila Akbar:

Thank you, Holly, yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've struggled with the student to get them to say something more than the campus is pretty in those essays. And when they have had, you know, a great interaction with their tour guide or a random student that they met when they visited, or when they can talk about, you know, when they peered into the bio lab building, they were just so, like, excited they could see themselves doing the doing that research there, it really makes for a compelling essay, and that's the stuff that a college admissions officer is going to remember and see as a sign that this student is a great fit at the school. So now you know why visits matter. I mean, there are many other benefits to visits, but those are the three we really want you to remember. And here's another list of three that I want you to be thinking about. We think about three types of college visits, and these may be happening at different times over the course of applying to college. And when we talk about the college process that really starts in ninth grade, it's not that you necessarily have to do anything specific to communicate with a college but everything that you do in high school from ninth grade on is going to be represented in your college application. So we want people to be intentional from the start, right? So there are three types of visits you may do over the course of that process. But we first have our Fit finder, where you're just kind of trying to get the lay of the land. What does a campus look like? What does a big campus look like, or a small campus, that kind of thing. And these can absolutely be done with younger children. It can actually be really beneficial to start getting that on their radar. Then we have the test drive, and these are usually done in 11th grade. As you get clearer on where specifically you want to apply, fit finder could be any random school the test drive. You are really seriously thinking about these schools, so they're much more prioritized and well researched. Are there specific things we encourage you to do on those kinds of tours? And then there's the gut check, which is going to happen after you're accepted, to make that final decision of where is the student actually going to go for the next four years of their lives? So I'll turn it back over to Holly to take us through a couple of these types.

Holly Schreiber:

Alright. So the fifth finder, as Sheila mentioned, this can start early, even earlier than seventh grade, right? Like if you have a younger student tagging along for college visits, you know, exposures is is great, and the purpose of this really is to start to understand of college preferences and what sort of environment your students going to thrive in. So what we emphasize here is that they're rather general. If you're curious, if a larger school in a like urban environment is a good fit, it doesn't have to be the top choice that you have in that category. It can be something convenient, something that's low stakes, but will demonstrate to a student what it feels like to feel like you're in the middle of a city when you're walking between your classes. So that's what we emphasize here, is that it's less about hunting down the match, the one there is no the one, yet most likely that's something that's that's going to develop with time and open mindedness. But this is one that will clarify things, so we recommend just to throw out a number like four to five different campuses, and different is a key word here. So even if your your kid seems dead set on big, big school, try and take the time to visit a small liberal arts campus and see. It looks like so can be based on campus size. That makes a big difference in a lot of ways, which is why that's often one of the first things we talk about in campus choice. Consider those locations. How far away is it? How like isolated? Is it easily accessible? Is it right in the middle of a city, or does it have a very separate campus feel? To start to get a sense of how that quality appears in schools, and you know, you can start getting familiar with what college tours are like if you you know, if you go on a formal tour, it doesn't always have to be that that formal, but that lowers the stakes once you get into the next step that is much more focused. So again, I'd say here, like have conversation, debrief, keep it casual, but take some notes too. It's really useful to think see how what's changed and what hasn't over the years when you do this, and often it helps if you can be the keeper of those things. So I'd suggest, yeah, if you can, if you can open up some notes or a document that you can refer back to. It can it can really serve you well in a few years, if you're at this stage.

Sheila Akbar:

That's a really good point, Holly, I like to bring up, and this has been on my LinkedIn last couple of weeks. If you guys follow me, my dad did this, and he I don't think he knew what he was doing, but he did this, and he would travel for a conference. He would take the whole family, and if there was a college nearby, usually there was, because it's a conference, we would see that college. We would do an official tour. He would make us talk to students. I have an older brother. We both cringed so hard. We were both so mortified and embarrassed, but he and my mom marched us around all of these college campuses across the country, and I think it really helped us develop, as Holly has said, the language for you know, what's relevant in college? What are the things that people do? How are these things laid out? And what do we kind of like? Where do we feel more comfortable? Where don't we feel more comfortable? And we'll talk about this as we go forward. But there were cases where I felt like I got enough of an impression of a school and my parents took so many pictures that I didn't feel like we needed to visit again, even if it was a school that I thought I was going to apply to, like we could save a little time and a little money not visiting again because we had the impression. Lisa has a good question. At this fit finder stage, do you schedule a tour or just show up and walk around? What do you

Holly Schreiber:

If you're able to get in one? I think it's worthwhile. It doesn't have to be for every, every school at this stage, but I think it's useful to start getting comfortable with with taking tours.

Sheila Akbar:

Yeah, I think it's a good point. I think you're also gonna have to decide based on how old your kid is, like you may really be excited about it, but your five year old might not be, and they're, you know, not gonna be paying attention, and you're gonna be running after them or whatever. So, you know, spend your goodwill with your kids, carefully with your on vacation. But you can also do these at, you know, whatever college is within half an hour of your house, so maybe you can go back if you wanted to do the official tour at some point. All right, let's keep going.

Holly Schreiber:

Alright. So when you're getting into junior year, things are getting more serious. This is when usually we're thinking about developing at least the first draft of the list, starting to hone it and finalize it, that's when we recommend taking test drive visits. So these are the focused visits that are coming from research. Right? You know, you've you've looked into the school, you've looked into the academic programs. Hopefully your your kid, has done a lot of that work as well and is invested in this, so you'll have a sense of, you know, what you feel like is going to be a good fit, about the school, what questions you have, or any concerns, and you're going in there on a mission. So I recommend, even though, you know, sometimes it can take a little extra scheduling to go in classes are in session and to, you know, take a look at the academic calendar for the school if you go right in the midst of finals week, maybe a little different vibe that's not indicative of the entire school year. So take a look at the academic calendar and get a sense of where you're you're arriving within it, and use that to contextualize the visit. But also, I really recommend that, because college is about other students. A lot of it is, right? You know, it's like, who are your friends going to be? How excited are they to learn? What are classes like? You know? What? What is the basic environment, right? College is not just buildings, so it's great to be able to do that when classes are in session. And it gives you a sense of how busy the campus is, what the traffic's like, how lively the town is near it. All of those things would make you'd have a better, more accurate impression if you go in classes or in session. So a couple recommendations we have about this. When you're there and you're investing the time to get there, go beyond the tour. Get. It nosy, Sheila. Sheila has some stories about this. It's not, it's not the time to worry about people judging you for being nosy, saying the wrong thing, you know, asking too many questions. This is your time to do that, and you should feel empowered to do so. So see if you can arrange to attend classes. Look at, you know, events that are on campus, explore around the campus, see how accessible it would be if your student can have a car or not. Can they get to you know what's accessible to them, and have them think through that, what that would look like for their first year. Obviously, we're asking for more investment in a visit than you may have thought of and so it makes sense to do fewer of them. I think that five or six, depending on how many schools from your fit finder were, are now in your list. You should prioritize schools that value demonstrated interest and that that information is available, and you can find out based on the schools which ones care about this. So going on a tour, an official tour, making yourself known to the admissions office is very strategic if your kids considering applying early decision which is binding, that it can give you an advantage at some schools. So it's a great can be a great option, but it's a really big decision to make very early. So it's worthwhile to have a very serious visit where, you know, you're, you're really able to compare your options, and you can make a, I would say, like, you know, a very well informed choice that you're going to feel good about group tours geographically, if you can, you know, make it easy on yourself. If you're going in one area of the country that seems very appealing, you can look at other schools as well. It's a nice way to expand. If you're looking to expand your list, especially into targets and likelies or safeties. You can do that geographically. And finally, remember that it's an option to visit after applying if you have every indication that it would be a good fit, but it's not that convenient to visit, and they don't track demonstrated interest. Why not wait until you see if you get in and where that lands on your priorities before you make that pick.

Sheila Akbar:

All great points here, Holly, and I really want to emphasize that thing that you said about this is not the time to be embarrassed about asking too many questions. Your kid will be embarrassed that you are asking so many questions, but you should not feel embarrassed. I mean, let's be you know, really real about this college is a huge investment. It's like buying a house, but we don't do the same level of due diligence and inspection and kicking the tires that we do when we're buying a house. We go by. You know what someone else told us, this college is a good college, right? There's a great book if you're interested in really figuring out what questions to ask. There's a great book on this called the price you pay for college. It's by a journalist named Ron Lieber, and it has so many questions in there. But I want to talk about the last kind of visit that that we've presented to you, we call this the gut check you've gotten in. Maybe you have three, four choices. Maybe you're one of the lucky students that has like, 10 choices. Hopefully you can narrow those to maybe just one or two, maybe two or three, and then at that point, visiting again can help that student really confirm their decision and feel good about their next steps. Sometimes this might be, you know, a visit at a random date that is convenient for you, and you're just maybe not going on a tour, but you're kind of looking at different things because now you're in but a lot of the times, this will come in the form of an admitted student's day or weekend, and most colleges have more than one of those, right? So they realize not everyone can come on April 14, so they'll do it on the seventh and the 14th and the 21st right? So you have, you have some options, but on that gut check visit, you really want to revisit the first impressions. What? What was it that initially drew you to the school? Are those preferences still relevant to you. Sometimes, when you're writing the essays, you realize, oh, actually, I like this other thing better than what I thought I did in the first place, right? And now that you're in and this could be a place you move to for the next four years, is this really where you want to be? We want students to engage again and more, right? Again? I said you might not go on a tour, but you do want to check out really specific things, like Career Services. If you didn't check it out on your first visit, if you hadn't done much research, stop in and see what that advising looks like, what kind of services they offer, how often students actually go to them, what kind of success rates they have, what kind of relationships they have with different industries or different companies. Do they proactively help students find internships, or do they just give them a login to a platform and the student has to do all the work on their own right? Really understand what they offer and who your kid is, because maybe the login to the platform is just what your kid needs. But you know, we all know there are some kids who just need a little bit more, right? So think about that. Think about student life, right? Hopefully your student has thought a little bit about the kinds of activities or clubs they want to be a part of in college, but now that they're in there's a chance to kind of take a deeper look and and see what the students there do for fun, and if that's really what they want to do, and if these are the people that they want to, you know, pursue their common interests with. And then overall, it's a reality check, right? In addition to like, what does my life look like day to day on this campus, you also want to think about, what did it take to get there? What does it take to leave campus? How far away from home is it is in a different time zone? What is that going to do to your communication with, you know, friends back home, the long distance boyfriend or girlfriend or parents, right? You want to hear from your kids too. So like, what are those realities that you really need to think about as you know you're preparing to make this decision, and then at the end of the day, you really want to trust your instincts. I literally, right before this I better had a call with a student who I had worked with this fall, and he's gotten into some great schools, and his parents reached out to me last week, and they're like, Okay, it's between these two, which one's better for a pre med and they were on their way to visit one of the schools that they hadn't visited before. So I was like, Okay, go visit that school. We'll talk when you get back. And immediately, you know, I got on the call, and this kid was like, it's UC Santa Barbara, not UC San Diego. Like, doesn't even matter what the options are. Just the vibe was right, that people were right. And I was like, Okay, we don't even have any to talk about. You know, I did help him make it, you know, feel a little better about what kind of advising he was going to get and how proactive he was going to need to be, but that's nothing to worry about right now. You can think about that. You know how to prepare to take full advantage of the campus over the summer before you get there, but I really encourage him to just listen to his gut. He's done the research, he's done the visits, he's met the people, and your body is telling you something that you should listen to. Right? We can put our brain on pause for just a second and go with our hearts, because, you know, you've done all the research work right now it's really time for for your student to think about where they belong. All right, we have some advice, some advice for everybody. I'll go through this a little bit quickly, and then we have some specific advice for parents. So as I was just saying, you gotta trust your senses now, your senses are important, but at the end of the day, your kids senses are a little bit more important. This is their life, their college experience. You know they're gonna have to live with these people. But you can also think about who your kids friends are right now, and if they seem like the people that you see on this campus, seem like the kind of people your child would be friends with, if they're the kind of people who are going to help your kid grow in all the right ways. You know, you can be paying attention to all of those things as well. Holly pointed this out when we were preparing these slides that sometimes kids get really hung up on a totally temporary circumstance, like it's raining that day, that campus sucked, or maybe they were sick, and so going on the tour was just really a slog, and that colored all of their impressions, right now, those are temporary circumstances that are not necessarily true of, you know, the whole year, unless it's like a really rainy place, it's like raining all the time, right? So if it's temporary, try to reserve judgment, try to help your child see, like, Hey, this is how you're feeling that day, or this is what the weather was that day. But is it really going to be like that all the time? Probably not, right? You do want to make it official. There was sort of a question about this earlier as well. You know, a lot of these schools track demonstrated interest. So you do want to sign up for an official visit, which you can do on the Admissions website. Now, sometimes those fill up because there are so many people who want to see it, or they're just tourists that you know are going to see that school, and there's no spot on the tour, what you can do is still go to the campus, but stop in at the admissions office or send them an email to say, Hey, I know we couldn't get on the tour, but we're going to be here on this date. Would it be possible for us to meet with a student or sit in on a class or, you know, something else really, even if you can't get on that tour? So don't try to be like, sneaky and just go incognito, like, make sure they know you're there. You'll be surprised at how accommodating they can be. And then this last one, I think is really important, and it really freaks people out sometimes to think, Oh, I'm gonna go visit this college, and I really love this college, and I hope they like me, and I hope I don't, like, put my foot in my mouth, or, like, trip and fall and make a big scene. You know, those things are probably not gonna happen. But also, your tour guide does not care. Your tour guide is not like, oh, this kid is not getting in, you know, they're not evaluating you on the tour. Now, you could do something really terrible, like start a fight, you know, punch a professor or something, and that will probably make it into the record. But you know, if you're not being controversial or aggressive, they're not evaluating you. They are actually there to try to convince you. Know of a certain impression of the school they are trying to sell to you. So don't worry so much about asking, like the best question or impressing people you're really there to exert some of your own agency and power, to say, Hey, this is what I want for my kid, or for your kid, to say, this is what I want for my life, and really ask the question if that school is going to help them get there. Holly, would you add anything here?

Holly Schreiber:

No, I think that sounds great. So this advice, these are tips, particularly for parents, knowing that you know you're often doing so much of the logistical work in the financial work, organizing these visits, that sometimes it can be hard to make sure that it's it is about the students experience and and them imagining what it will be like to be on campus. So some advice that we have about how you can be the most helpful to them are number one, to check your past at the door. You may feel very nostalgic when you go on these tours. You may, you may visit your your alma mater and and have really strong opinions about it, or you may have sort of negative opinions, because this seems like different from what, what you really liked about college. I find it really helpful to just take time and you know, like, do a little do a little temperature check and see how you're feeling about schools, and see if you can try to let your kid make make their own impression first, and then be there for debriefing, for asking questions, getting them teasing out their ideas, but trying not to make that first. You know, feeling or impression, something that comes directly from you, because there's plenty of time that you have to talk with them about these ideas, but I think it's so informative to see when, when they're coming up with their own feelings and impressions. There something that you you well, I'll skip to that ask provocative questions. It one of the more helpful things that you can do is draw out through discussion, the impressions that your kid will have when they're doing a college visit often, you know, until things are said out loud, it might not come into complete awareness, and it might not, you know, come into memory and sit there. So I think asking, you know, what, what did you hate about this school? Well, you know, was it this seemed actually similar to that one? What was the difference that made you really just like this. It's not bad during them, maybe feel like that a little bit. But the idea is, is to get them to articulate, and then for you to maybe write down or take note of, like, what? What are these? You know, distinguishing characteristics in their impressions, which needs to the next one documenting those things, if you can document the visits, answers to questions that you have, and the impressions, like the really strong impressions that your kid has, that can be a tremendous use to them. It may be annoying at first and have your camera out the whole time, but when it comes down to applying to this many schools and writing those essays and trying to articulate what exactly the spirit of the campus was that drew you to it. Having those resources will be a huge benefit, and they will thank you for it. So feel free to help that like for that to be the role that you're receiving information and impressions and asking questions during that process, and then, you know, processing your own feelings and and offering advice can come later as well. I really love the I'll say long term, documenting these things, it can be so helpful, because, you know, students preferences can change. And we say, Listen, you know, listen to your gut, pay attention to the vibes. That's great, but what's really important is to see long term what what values and preferences are, are true and deep and are likely to remain there for five years. You know, it'll be a whole year before your your kid is on campus, and then a lot longer that they'll be in school. So the longer you're taking note and keeping track of these, of these ideas and preferences, the easier it will be for you and them to see which ones have stood the test of time. So finding a kind of durable, long term note taking system will be a big help. And then finally, it can be so fun to like visit dream schools, because they're beautiful. Often they're, you know, in great locations, and they're the first ones we might think of, right? But if you start from the top, if you start with schools that are far reaches or likely to be, you know, the top choice immediately, it's going to create a sense of dissatisfaction that will kind of permeate visits after that, and what we really want in a balanced college list is that a positive sense that all of us on this list have something amazing to offer, and that each of these life paths that these schools offer have tremendous possibility. So it's a lot easier to do that and have that mindset if you. Start with schools that are really comfortably within a range for your student, they can start with an open mind and be it will be really exciting. Like, what college has to offer students is incredible, but if it get a little spoiled looking at, you know, the very tippy top, it might be harder for them to keep an open mind when finding their safety schools.

Sheila Akbar:

That's such a great point. We meet families all the time that have visited all the Ivy League schools, and they're like, We don't know how to choose targets or safeties. And you know, there are plenty of great target and safety schools for their student. It's just that their standards are so high that nothing is going to meet them, right? And that's the trap that a lot of people fall into. It's very easy to pick out the reach schools, right, but it is a lot harder to find the right target and safety schools that will really provide the right environment for your student. Only difference between these is that they have different acceptance rates. They're different in terms of their selectivity, but they should still offer, you know, the great biology program or the co op that, you know, system that your your student really loves, or be in that area of the country and be that size that they've decided they're really comfortable with. So I just think this is the thing that every parent really needs to hear, is like, don't start with the fancy ones. Start with the other, the other less fancy ones, and really think about what, what does the school have to offer? And work your way up your list. I do want to talk about when you can't travel, and that might be because your budget is limited, or your time is limited, both of those things are very real, and colleges are very understanding about this. They they're not going to like ding you for not actually visiting. If they track demonstrated interest. There are other ways to demonstrate your interest. You could attend local or virtual info sessions. Now, almost every college does a virtual info session. Now sometimes it's like, pre recorded, and you just put your email in, and then you know you have access to it, so they know that you have expressed that interest, that you're going to watch this virtual info session. A lot of the times, the admissions reps will travel either to your school or they'll team up with a couple of other reps from other schools, and they'll host an event in your town or a neighboring town where there are, like six schools that you can meet. And then, of course, there are college fairs as well, where you might find 100 different colleges that you could talk to, and they all will have a sign up sheet or a QR code for you to scan and get on their mailing list, right? And that mailing list, you're going to get tons of junk mail. You're going to get a lot of spam it. You know, there are some schools that, when they track demonstrated interest, they check the open rate, right? Right. Have you opened all of our emails? You don't need to be like too crazy about this. But if it's a school you really care about and you're on their mailing list, you should open those emails. And those mailing lists, their newsletters are great place to learn about some of those local sessions that come. You can also contact the admissions office to say, Hey, I'm you should have your student do this, or maybe you can help them. I'm a student interested in studying Comparative Literature, and I really want to understand, you know, what that major is like. Could you put me in touch with a student who's a current major, and they will be happy to do that for you, and they'll register your interest, and they will connect you to a student who can really give your your kid, that perspective that they're seeking. So don't, don't be shy about that. And you know, there are times where we'll encourage a student to ask via email a very specific question about how a program works, or, you know, whatever, because we want to make sure they're demonstrating that interest at a detailed level with like, a question that can't be asked or can't be answered just by looking at the website, right? So sometimes there's some strategy involved in that as well. And then, if your goal is to really understand the vibe of the school, there are lots of ways to do that too, right? Connecting with a current or a former student. Maybe you know someone who went there again. You can talk to the admissions office to find out. You know, to get in touch with the current student can be really, really helpful for for students like teenagers, listen to other teenagers more than they listen to adults. So that's a really great strategy. There's a lot of social media content. There's official content that's created by the admissions office, which, you know, can be really useful. A lot of these schools have great admissions blogs, like MIT and University of Pennsylvania, two of the best admissions blogs that are out there, and gives you a lot of really practical insight and information, not just about those schools, but about the whole process. But you can also look at non official channels, right? A lot of clubs and student organizations will have their own socials, so you can get a sense of what those feel like. And then there's amateur content, whether that's a student at the school like ranting and raving about the food, or somebody who went on a tour and uploaded some clips of their tour to Tiktok. You can use all of that to try to glean a sense of what is it like on campus. There are services that have created virtual tours, whether that's. A 3d virtual tour, or a video that you watch, but I like to share this one. One of my students was really having trouble engaging with the research until she figured out she could just look at Google Street View to pretend she was walking around this campus to see how far it was, or how long it was from where the dorms are to where the building where her classes would be, or what that, you know, main commercial street looks like, that has all the bars and restaurants that's off campus. What does that really look like? And you know, she didn't get a sense of like the energy, but she really was able to picture the campus in her mind that way. So lots of ways to do that, even if you can't travel, is not overkill at all. To use these even if you can travel. Actually, I encourage all of our students to do these before they go on a visit, because then they have some specific things to look for, right? Was this just really shiny and pretty on the marketing video that the college created? Or what does this gym look like in real life, right? So I think it's great. You should definitely do this. Demonstrate your interest, go to campus, like, do all the things, if you can do them all right, as we kind of round it out here, I want to bring us back to why do visits matter? I hope you can see now why you can't just say, Oh, we're going to go see you know, these four colleges without any real strategy or goals in mind, this is really going to help you and your kid, get the most out of these visits. Learn what really matters to both of you, or all of you, get on the same page about that. Have real conversations about that. It's going to help their admissions chances at schools that track demonstrated interest, and it's going to help them have an easier time preparing their application materials and having better application materials, because they're going to have all of these sort of unique things to pull on and authentic experiences to pull on. You need a strategy. You need a strategy. You can't just like, be like, okay, whatever. We're just waltzing through this with our eyes closed. Visits are important, but they're certainly not everything. This is a really small part of building a list, but the list is super important. So that visit strategy needs to cohere with your overall application strategy, right? Where are you visiting? Why are you visiting? What are you looking at? Who are you trying to meet? What are we trying to capture so that we can come back and write great essays or be prepared for an interview. And part of this, you know, parents, you're here because you want this information. Many of you are probably taking notes. You guys are ready, but are your kids engaged? Are they on board? Are they going to communicate with you? This is a highly collaborative process, and certainly the way we approach it at Signet, we want this to be a process of personal growth for them. This is so complicated, and it's very high stakes, right? So we're not gonna let them do it on their own, but we do want them to be learning the skills to be able to manage this kind of project, this kind of life decision, on their own, with your help, and as they grow, as they go off to college, they're gonna start making these decisions on their own, right? But it's a great time to practice all of that stuff, but it's really hard to do that with your own kid. They're like, at an age where they don't want to listen to you, they don't want to talk to you. They think, you know, even if you were a college consultant, they'd be like, whatever mom, like, you don't know what you're talking about, right? And half the time when I'm talking to a student, it's something that a parent has already said to them, and that could be the benefit of having someone like me or Holly in the mix. Your kids are going to talk to us. We're really good at, like, just not having that. I mean, we don't know them the way you know those we just don't have the history and the baggage, and they're, you know, just more willing to listen to us a little bit than their own parents. Thank you everybody, and thank you Holly for joining us. All right, well, we stripped off a lot of the questions from the audience of that talk, but they had some really good ones. If you are interested in hearing kind of the full talk and seeing the slides, you can go to the Signet events page, which is just Signet education.com, forward slash events, and you'll be able to access the actual recording of this session and many more. And you'll get access to a bunch of free tools, including a college visit checklist, a college preference worksheet, and my college organizer. So please go to that site and check all that stuff out. I hope it's helpful, and we'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.