You Need A College List

In today's episode, Signet’s admissions consultant, Joanna Graham, shares expert tips on how to craft a standout college list. From setting achievable goals to building strong study habits and embracing a growth mindset, Joanna offers practical tips that can make a real impact. Tune in for advice that could change the way your student approaches learning—and set them up for success!

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Transcript

Joanna Graham: 0:00

Secret, in many ways, starts with the college list. When you have the right list, when this exercise is done correctly and done properly, this is going to make your student uniquely competitive, because you are finding schools that align with things that are important to them, things that they are passionate about, an environment in a community where truly, your student is going to be able to thrive and flourish and become the very best version of themselves.

Sheila Akbar: 0:36

Hi folks, welcome back to the podcast. I hope you all had a lovely Thanksgiving. We took the week off, but we're back with a replay of a very impactful session I did with my colleague Joanna Graham on how to build a college list. And this is a question we get a lot. We actually spend a lot of time on the college list, and a lot of parents are like, What are y'all doing over there? Why is this taking so long? Isn't it like you just pick the top 20? And the answer is, No, you don't just pick the top 20. So I'm excited to share with you my conversation with Joanna and her thoughts about how to build a list so that it really sets your student up for success and can act like a roadmap for your entire college admissions process. So this material is absolutely, very relevant for juniors, and couldn't hurt if you have a ninth or 10th grader for you to listen in and start gleaning some understanding about what kind of things you should be watching for, trying to understand in your students learning environment now and their goals, so that you can apply those to the college process, when the you know, actual work of the process really starts a little bit later in high school. So take a listen, and I'll see you on the other side. This is going to be really timely information for juniors, but even if you have a younger student, this will be really helpful for you to kind of get a view of the process. And you can even start some of this early on with your students, too. And sometimes that's even advisable, because sometimes some students just need a little more time to wrap their head around, what is this whole college process? And wait, what do you want of me? Now, I'm an adult, what? So not a bad idea to start the conversation earlier. All right, in the interest of time, I'm going to go ahead and get us started. We're here to talk about you need a college list. So how the heck do you do this thing? And I have with me one of my wonderful colleagues, Joanna, who is a former Georgetown admissions officer, has been consulting on college and graduate admissions for 20 years and joined the Signet team in the middle of last year. This is your second season with us, and we are so lucky to have her on the team, and Joanna is really going to be talking through most of the content.

Joanna Graham: 2:56

Fantastic. Thank you so much, Sheila. We're just delighted to have you join us today to talk about building college lists. And if this feels a little bit daunting, you know, we're here to try and dispel some of those myths, but also start giving you a bit of a road map on things to consider, just a bit about me. So Sheila gave you a bit of background. I was first gen in my family to go to college. I did my undergrad at Georgetown, and since then, I've built a 20 year, 20 plus year career in the marketing and branding space. I've held every job from Product Manager to Chief Marketing and chief product officer in a variety of companies, but really have found my sweet spots in coaching students. It's something that I absolutely love doing. And when I when I do this type of work, I really try to think about the type of coach or advisor advocate I wish I would have had when I was going through this process myself. So let's talk about building college lists. I think the first question that a lot of parents ask is, you know, why is the list so important? The you know, at the end of the day, the list is just that. It's a list of schools that your child is going to be applying to. But, you know, I always tell families when we start this process that this really is going to be your roadmap, and so you want to be very intentional. You want to take the time to think about what are the things that are going to be important to your child as you think about where he or she or they are going to spend the next four years of their life, this really does set them up for success, and if done properly, it really does a great job of launching them to the next phase of their career. I like to use this example when you think about building college lists. College lists are one of those things that, in theory, you could probably build it in five minutes, or you could take five months to build it, and the sweet spot is probably somewhere a little bit in the middle. And that's really the way you should be thinking about college lists. Is that really think about, how are you aligning your efforts with your child, with your family's goals, and make sure that you are setting a course that is that is really sort of aligned with what your child's long term goals are. When you are able to get this right, this makes the rest of the process significantly easier. Facilitates. It really does facilitate the rest of the admissions process, and this is really the. Are two reasons behind this. The first piece is, when you think about the college process, when you think about admissions, I'm sure folks here have had recognized and have seen that colleges are getting more selective, that there are, if you're looking at a top schools, it is getting harder and harder to get into some of these schools. And so families, a lot of times talk about, well, what is that competitive edge? How do I make my child stand out? The secret, in many ways, starts with the college list. When you have the right list, when this exercise is done correctly and done properly, this is going to make your student uniquely competitive, because you are finding schools that align with things that are important to them, things that they are passionate about, an environment in a community where truly, your student is going to be able to thrive and flourish and become the very best version of themselves. You'll also find is that we talk about being able to sort of tap into this organic motivation. If your child is like most teenagers, they are probably great at getting things done that they are super excited about, but for the things that they are not so excited about, it is probably like pulling teeth, and for many students, the college admissions process can be a bit more like the latter, especially when they feel like they are being either backed into schools or being heavily influenced to apply to schools that aren't necessarily the schools that they absolutely love, but the schools that they feel are going to unlock the best version of themselves. It's saying that we work with a wide variety of students. And, you know, I always, I always think about a student that I worked with who, when we started the process, was really looking at a lot of very big, larger sort of state schools. He wanted a big community school. Spirit was really important to him. The list that his parents were really pushing him towards consisted more so of smaller liberal arts colleges. They thought that, you know, he would be great at studying history, whereas in reality, he was interested in studying business. And so when you have a little bit of that push, pull tension, especially when it simmers for a while, it creates, number one, a bit of conflict. But two, when the student actually sits down and being asked, Why do they want to apply to a small liberal arts college in New England, and can't articulate the why, it makes this process incredibly frustrating, both for the students, for the parents, quite frankly, for the coach of the consultant who's working with them. And the reality is it's just the end product. The quality is just not going to be there because the students hard isn't into it. So the right list, the right school list, is truly going to be that, that differentiator. So when we sit down and start talking with families about building school lists. I always try to encourage folks to start with the end in mind. And what that means is, you know, when I when I ask a student, you know what, what's your plan after college? Like, what's the purpose of going to college? 99% of the time the student looks at me and this is, well, I think I have to get a job at the end. And it's true. Yes, you more likely than not you are going to be looking for employment after you finish that four year degree. But I always encourage students to think a little bit more broadly. So yes, the career is one piece of it. But is it, you know, is that career sort of the end all be all, or is that going to be the launching pad, potentially, for graduate school or for another pathway that might require a certification or some type of micro credential or nano degree to layer on top of that four year degree. Another thing that's incredibly important when you think about schools too are the networks. So you hear folks talking all the time about how some of their best friends or how many of their connections or their first job came through the alumni network at their school. These are the folks with whom you're engaging on a regular basis. And so again, encourage your students to think about, you know, what type of network? Number one, are you looking to build? But two, what type of network are you hoping to tap into? Are there specific types of industries that you're hoping to maybe pivot into where, say, you and your family may not necessarily have a lot of experience, whether it be in something maybe like biotech or something like finance, being able to tap into a strong network that's going to really accelerate your students trajectory is going to be incredibly important to think about as well. To think about as well. And then finally, thinking about skills. So when you think about what types of soft skills are, is your student looking to build? Are there certain things that are going to sort of come out of that collegiate experience that are going to help them become, again, a better version of themselves? They're going to help with executive function, that are going to help with that next phase of life? Really thinking about, how do you combine that, potentially with with other technical skills that they may be looking to build? For many students, you know, I asked them to start thinking a little bit about what their high school experience has been like. What are things that they've loved about their high school, and then what are some of the things that they perhaps wish that they could have had tapped into or taken advantage of in high school that maybe weren't offered. And for many students, sometimes these are things like graphic design or UI UX or skills that are tied to more technical types of roles. And so it's looking at what types of things are offered at these universities. It's going to be a great way for you to start filtering out and prioritizing what is going to be really important. And this sort of segues into this next part around identifying priorities. So as you start thinking about what the next four years of your life is going to be like, I always encourage students to think about for the first time in your life, you are the architect of your own destiny. So what are the things that are going to be truly important to you? And if academics is the first answer, that's fantastic, but you have to dig a little bit deeper. Are you looking for a certain. Academic major. Are you looking for academic flexibility? A lot of students talk about how much they love Brown's open curriculum. Are you looking for something like the Co Op program that Northeastern offers? So all sorts of different types of academic experiences and learning experiences are certainly going to color the type of experience you have in school. And this is certainly something to think about at a very high level. So in terms of breaking this down into slightly more tactical steps. So if this still feels a little bit overwhelming, let's talk a little bit about what some of this can look like. And so we'll talk a lot about preferences. So you can certainly use a tool like this campus compass checklist. I realize that's a mouthful. It doesn't roll out the tongue very nicely, but it's a great way to start thinking about some of these preferences, some of these parameters and things that are going to be uniquely important to your child. Perhaps it, you know, as I mentioned before, perhaps it's academics, perhaps it's study abroad, opportunities. Perhaps there are other things that your students will articulate as they start that maybe weren't, weren't apparent initially, as they start digging into schools a little bit more deeply. And I promise you, the more you dig into schools. The more you get into this process, probably the more confusing it'll be at first, but it does. There is some clarity. There is some light at the tunnel. These are all great questions for you and your students to be having now, as opposed to say, spring of senior year, when maybe it's a little too late at that point to go back. So these are all great conversation starters. The next step here is to use a search engine to start building a really broad initial list. And I always tell students that as they think about the things that are important to them, encourage them to think about, sort of what are some of those deal breakers. So the ideal school for me has to have this one thing or these two things. Otherwise, I don't know if I necessarily want to apply there. And then there are a lot of things that fall in the middle and sort of on the spectrum of what we call the nice to haves. So it would be great if there was a Greek system. It would be great if they had if they guaranteed housing for four years, but it is not going to necessarily be a deal breaker. And so you can start using some of these search engines to build lists. And then you can start ranking or rating some of these schools as you start to do your research to see how many of those parameters do they meet on your list, there's some great sites, like big feature, Easter college navigator, where you can start building lists. If some of these sound a little foreign to you, definitely feel free to start Googling these on your own as well. You'll find that all the sites function in some ways, in a very similar way, but they do have some some very distinct value adds. And I think a lot of it just comes down to personal preference. In terms of which site you feel most comfortable navigating. We always try to encourage students and families that the best search engine is going to be the one that you feel comfortable using and the one where you feel that you understand the the results that you're getting. And then the next step here is this idea of, sort of continuing to research, refine and validate. So as you start learning about schools and building these lists, I encourage families to start with a matrix and to include some of those criteria that you've identified as important, and start populating that matrix with the data for your individual schools, so it feels a little bit more like you're comparing schools on an apples to apples basis. The other thing, most importantly, I would say, here, is it's also not a bad thing to start deleting schools from your list. There is no award or prize for you to have, or a badge of honor to wear. If you have 75 schools on your list that you just can't You can't dare to get rid of a couple of them, is you find schools that you like better. So think of it kind of like the test at the eye doctor, which one's better, A or B and then B or C. You know, definitely feel free to, you know, to be proactive about removing schools that don't feel like they're going to be the best fit for you. There's absolutely no harm in doing so. And number two, it'll make it a lot easier than for you to start comparing schools that you truly are interested in in a much more detailed and deeper way as well. Sheila, was there anything else that you wanted to add with regards to sort of our step by step approach here?

Sheila Akbar: 13:36

Sure, that was really great and comprehensive. I think our next slide goes into a little bit more of the research that we want you to do, but I think the idea is start broad and then validate, right, validate every little thing. And Joanna, you said this, but I'm going to re emphasize it, because I can't stress it enough. Have the hard conversation now, before you do all the work of applying, because when you do find the schools that are a good fit for you, those schools are also looking for you, right? The Fit goes both ways. So you're increasing your chances of acceptance by applying to schools where you know there's going to be a great sense of belonging that they offer the things that you specifically are looking for, because they offer those things to attract students that are looking for those things, right? So have the hard conversations up front. Take schools off the list, like Joanna is saying, cut through the noise and focus on what matters most to you. And the campus compass checklist is something that you're going to get for free as part of the follow up of this. So you'll have a worksheet that you can work through with your student, or you can do it separately from your student and then compare notes, but it's a great way to start those conversations about what really matters to you in your college search.

Joanna Graham: 14:50

So we'll talk about the thorough research here. So there are a couple of things to think about. So first off, the quantitative data is probably the easiest part. So these are the things like average SAT or att. Scores, average GPA, you know, even even things like average retention rate, sort of students coming back sophomore year. So these are all of the basic statistics to give you a better sense of what a student profile looks like in a very quantifiable and measurable way. One of the other things I encourage families to think about with regards to quantitative data. In addition to those, admission statistics are starting to dig into career services and what they have to offer as well, too. I always tell families, I think this is one of the most overlooked places. People don't knock on Career Services doors until fall of senior year often, and this is what you should be doing, summer of junior year in high school, fall of senior year in high school, not senior year of college. These folks are going to be your very best friends, but they're also going to give you a really good indication of the type of support that you can expect, and also the types of jobs, the types of salaries that you might expect once you are graduating. And so if ultimately, the end goal here is to land a role that you love, at a company that you love, in an industry that you love, ask some of the tough questions, you know, ask them what companies are coming to campus to recruit. Can students attend events at other local universities? Does the school help facilitate that? Do they put out a report every year that shows where graduating seniors are landing, what types of roles are landing? What are the titles? How within 90 days, within six months of graduation, what percentage of seniors have landed full time jobs? It's going to be really interesting, very telling for you to start digging into that data, not just at a university level, but also at a school specific level. So I always encourage families to if you're applying to a very specific school, an engineering school, a business school, make sure that you're asking for that data at an industry specific or at a school specific level. And know too that many schools will have separate Career Centers for individual schools as well, in addition to a more broad, sort of general one for all undergraduates. When you think about the qualitative insights, these are the things when you start thinking about fits and so when we talk about culture, belonging, community, you know, when students talk about setting foot on a campus and sort of just getting that feeling that they just know that this is the place for them. Those are the qualitative insights. This is the magic. And this can be a wide variety of things. You can certainly suss out a lot of this, I think, by starting with college websites. But the reality is, is that after a while, college websites all kind of start to sound the same. They're using probably a lot of the same buzzwords, and truthfully, they're all going to say that they are fantastic at accounting and statistics and history. And frankly, there isn't necessarily some magic glitter or pixie dust that Harvard is sprinkling on their brand of accounting that a community college in Las Vegas is necessarily doesn't have access to, because accounting is accounting. But when you start to think about those intangibles, these are the qualitative pieces that you think about, who are the students you're surrounding yourself with? Who are the professors who are teaching these courses? What types of things are they researching? Do they take on students as interns to help with that research? Do they get actively involved with supporting students in the job hunting or internship process? These are some of the intangibles that really help students start to realize, is this the place that feels like like I could be successful digging into student organizations. So I always encourage students, you know, take a look. Definitely feel free to leverage social media in this way without going down too deep and dark of a black hole. But it's always really nice to sort of see some of that student generated content. To see if a school is touting that they have over 200 undergraduate clubs. That is fantastic. But the reality is that, you know, probably a handful of them are are super active on campus. So take a look at the clubs you're interested in, see if they have a website, see if they have a presence on social media, and then see what they're actually doing and what students are talking about. It's a great way to start getting a sense of culture and also getting a glimpse at the types of students you're going to be surrounding yourself with. And do these feel like people you would want to be friends with or roommates with? Even these are all the things that I also encourage students as you're building out these matrices and you're starting to rank schools, to come up with some type of rating, and it can be whatever you want it to be, but you know, on a scale of one to 10, how do I feel about if I saw one of the business fraternities, how do I feel about the folks who I saw? Do these feel like people who I would be friends with, and start again. The idea is to try to create some sort of ranking system, or rating system here, where you it feels like you're comparing apples to apples. Because the other piece that you'll find is that the more you learn about schools, the more schools you add to your list. They do start to run together at some point. And so it is important to try to come up with some type of system that'll be that'll be helpful to keep the most right, and then last but not least, and this is probably the most important part here, is the connection and engagement piece. And so obviously you want to be engaging with admissions folks on campuses. Attend online events when available, attend panel discussions, anything that you can. Some schools will track things like demonstrated interest. Many do not. But it is certainly never going to hurt you to attend an event that a school is hosting where you have an opportunity to learn a little bit more about what the school offers. Because you often have different folks who are delivering these sessions, you may learn something a little bit different about the university. And so there's certainly, I don't think there's any harm and redundancy there. But the other thing to think about is, you know, this is when you start tapping into your current network. So do you have a friend, a. Neighbor, a second cousin's sister twice removed, something, something who may have gone to a school that you're interested in, or is studying something maybe that you are interested in. This is where you want to be really aggressive about trying to reach out and schedule virtual or in person coffee chats, or, I guess maybe, if you're a high school student, a smoothie chat or a frappuccino chat, something like that, but spending time and actually getting to know folks, asking questions about what their experiences were like, and really trying to build some of those connections, all right? So let's talk a little bit about some of the pitfalls. So we've painted this lovely picture for you about how wonderful the process is and all the wonderful things you're going to learn. There are some pitfalls in this journey, or some distractors that we always want to call out to you know, I think it can be very, very easy to get distracted by the rankings and by brand. There are so many students who will come in with a list and they'll just say, you know, it's Ivy League robust. And they don't necessarily know which schools are are going to specialize in certain things. They don't even know necessarily what they want to study. They know that they just want to study at one of these schools because this is a brand that they've heard of. Again, we go back to what we were talking about at the beginning. The right list is going to unlock your competitive advantage. And if, if you're not able to talk about why you are a good fit for a school, it is going to be very, very obvious in the essays, and it is going to be very obvious to folks reading those applications, I can tell you right now. I mean having read applications for a couple of years that it really stands out when you can tell when a student has written one essay and is just cut and pasted into every single application, if there's no customization, if there's no sense that they understand what the school stands for, what their mission statement is, what they value, that is going to be very obvious. And and you can have the best grades and the best test scores in the world, but schools want students who genuinely want to be there and understand what they're going to get out of that experience. And so I really encourage folks to make sure that you're thinking about what your personal ranking is going to be at schools, because frankly, you know US News World Report, or any of the other rankings out there, you know they're going to be the ones that you're talking to about how much you love or dislike a program. So make sure that you're really starting to think about what are the things that are important to you, and building that own person, that personal ranking system. I think one of the other things here is really not being clear in your mind about what those non negotiables are versus the things that you need and the things that you want. And so really spending some time thinking about what is going to be truly important and truly crucial to giving you a successful four year experience. And the reality is, is that college sometimes is one of the first times when students are faced with some really hard and fast metrics and numbers, and if there isn't alignment on some of these things, they can end up being distractors. And so we talk a lot about fit. We talk a lot about encouraging students to pursue their dreams, but it also is really important to make sure that your school list is very realistic. You want to make sure that you have a mix of schools that you know that certainly are a bit aggressive, like let's go after those dream schools, but not at the expense of the schools on your list, that that really are also just as good, if not better, about fits, culturally, academically, but where we feel that you're going to be incredibly competitive, and so it's important to create that balance. As you're going through this process, there are students who come, like I said, will be sometimes with an Ivy League. Listen, the reality is that the Ivy League schools are so competitive that they're going to be reaches for anyone. But you want to make sure that you're creating some balance. And still again, going after, you know, going after aggressively, some of those dream schools, or some of those reach schools, but also being really realistic, to make sure that you are giving yourself as many options as possible come springtime of your senior year, as I mentioned at the beginning. You know, rushing this process is really going to sort of dictate, I think, the how the rest of the admissions journey goes for you. So making sure that you invest the time and energy. And honestly, I think the massaging part of this process, the research and the validation parts, it's a cycle that goes on and on. I mean, there are students who will add schools at the last minute because they learn something at an info session or a school came to their to their high school to speak. There's nothing wrong with adding schools. It's not like there's a deadline for when you have to stop adding schools, but it is important that you do start the process early and that you have a very clear sense of what you're looking what you're looking for, and that, more importantly, that you're not rushing this to too late into your into your high school career. And then lastly, just a quick note here on parental expectations, I think that everyone probably has a the story, or has some has some memory of what the college application process was like for that. And it could maybe be very positive. Maybe it's one that you make you cringe a little bit. But I always encourage parents, before you start down this journey with your child, just to take a moment and think about what your application journey was like, and if there are things that maybe give you a little twitch in your neck, I always encourage parents to really think about what is the type of support that you felt, that you needed when you were applying to college. Did you get it and then you obviously know your child better than anyone else. What is the type of support that your child is going to need through this process and making sure that you're not conflating those two, I think the other piece too is that reminding parents that you have to keep in mind whose name is on that application, and so college is not necessarily a second opportunity to go chasing after some. Dreams, or some different pathways maybe that were left, that were left unturned before. And so really making sure that you keep in mind that your child is at the center of this process, and that you are honoring their preferences and their journey, I think just a couple of additional notes here on sort of the reflection and engagement part. So as I mentioned, sort of the personal experiences are going to be huge. The supportive guidance, obviously is going to be doing be crucial. You know, again, I think parents, we we played different roles in this process with our kids. Certainly advice and encouragement is going to be because, I think it's going to probably be best received and most welcome. Certainly, there are going to be times when you may have to project manage things and apply a little bit of pressure as well too, especially when it comes to making some decisions, it's really important to just try to figure out what's what that equilibrium sort of point is between those two, then making sure that this does feel like a collaborative process. They can't tell you how many times there are families where I almost feel like I'm mediating a bit, because there is a disconnect in terms of of expectations, in terms of the roles, and so it's really important to have these conversations early and often, especially before the pressure starts to starts to turn up as you get further into junior year, into senior year, and then lastly, you know, again, I think the last part here was communication is just this is going to be something that obviously comes out of supportive guidance and all the conversations that you have that are open, honest and transparent. It's really going to be important to make sure that you're listening to your child and what their hopes, their dreams and their concerns throughout this entire process are as well. I think the college admissions process looks very different now than it did when when most of us were applying to college, but it's important to make sure that we're that we're recognizing that, that we're listening and that we're honoring that throughout the process as well.

Sheila Akbar: 26:32

Really well, said, Joanna. I want to chime in here, because we are seeing this now with the parents of our seniors, right? Who, you know, maybe applied. Did some early applications just last month, and are getting ready to submit some more. One thing I like to remind parents is that this process is part of the process of letting your child fly from the nest, right? And this is a great place to practice giving them ownership of their life, of their dreams, of, you know, their process, right? And that doesn't mean completely step back, but it does mean think about where you can give them a little bit more autonomy and just be a supporter from the sidelines and other places where you may need to step in and project manage, but it's a great place to practice shifting your relationship with your child as they start to become a young adult. You know, if they're about to embark on this process, they're going to leave home within the next two years or so, and you want them to be ready for that. And this is a great place to start trying that out and shifting the relationship.

Joanna Graham: 27:39

Great points. Thank you, Sheila, so a couple of additional notes, as you're building your list and as you're going through this process. So this idea of building out a timeline, so I think you've heard this a couple times now from me, but making sure that you are dedicating sufficient time for research when you go through this process and it is rushed or you feel pressured to be really candid, a lot of folks make bad decisions, so taking the time again to make sure that you're carving out time. The other thing I would say too is, you know, if you have multiple children, a lot of families, I think, sometimes fall into this trap of assuming that if they've gone through this process with one child, it'll be the same or very similar with the second child or third child. And, you know, and the reality is, is that for some families there, I've worked with families where they have four children, and three of the four children all want to study the same thing, and all want to go to the same school and have very similar grade and test scores. It very, very rarely works out like that. What I would encourage you to think about is, you know, for every child, think about building a framework that's going to work for every child in your family. And if you do have younger children, certainly feel free to involve them in certain pieces of this. I think it's certainly good to expose them to here's what it's going to look like. But don't feel like they have to be an active participant. Every child is going to go through this process in their own way. And so making sure that you're creating space for each child to have that their own experience is going to be incredibly important as well. Now one of the things that you can carry over is the documentation piece. So if you build a matrix with fields that you love and something that works really well for you. Or if you build a Gantt chart for managing applications and all of those deadlines you absolutely love, save that template. Share it with your friends and family if you'd like. Save it for your next child. Again you want that are certainly going to work well for you. But the best documentation system, the best templates, are going to be ones that that you understand and that you that you use, and we do have some wonderful if you're wondering, How in the world do I even go about building a template? Sheila will talk to you in a little bit about some of the wonderful gifts that we have for you all, where we do make this process a little bit easier for you. But above all, I would encourage you to make sure that everything is centralized, though, so have it live somewhere where everyone has access to it, where everyone can weigh in and provide comments. Google Drive is a fantastic resource for this, and that way, everyone can go in and add their own comments as you go, and then just the last week, reiterate again, the importance of evaluating and regularly going back and refining that list. Again. There's no award for the family who has 75 schools on their list, and frankly, if you were to show up to a meeting with Sheila or me. 75 schools we might fall out of our chair heavily encourage you to start trimming that back. The best list is going to be a list that includes those mix of schools where your student is going to be competitive, but more importantly, where your student feels they could be successful regardless of the selectivity factor of that school.

Sheila Akbar: 30:18

Great. So Joanna, thank you very much. I'll let you rest your voice for a minute, and I'll take over the mic for a little bit. I want to go through the most frequently asked questions. Joanna, you alluded to this, but we don't want 75 colleges on your list. In fact, most application platforms limit your number of applications to 20. Even that seems high to me. Now, certainly, this is more than you or I would have applied to when we were going through it. But the world has changed. College applications are now digital, and people submit more applications per student, so our recommendation is between 10 and 15 schools on your final final list. Now you might start with 30 or 40 on your initial research list, but as you do that research, you're going to whittle that down and focus in on the schools that really do meet the needs and preferences that you've mapped out for yourself. And there are some students where it makes sense to apply to a little bit more, some where it makes sense to apply to fewer, but a good guideline is between 10 and 15, and then that list of schools should include a mix of what we call likely, target and reach schools. And some people, instead of using the word likely, they'll call it a safety but these schools should all meet the needs and preferences that your students set out. But the difference between them should really be their selectivity, right? And I like to see at least two true likelies. Now these are ones where there is just no question your student is getting in right, and you may get information from a friend in your network or even from your school's own internal database on Naviance or score or Maya or whatever platform they use. That shows you some really, really selective school is basically a safety for the student, and I really hate that that happens. It really misaligned certain expectations. Generally, for me, a school that has a lower than 75% acceptance rate is not a safety is not a likely school, right? We really want just guarantee we have options right, and you should still be happy to go to this school, right? It maybe is not your dream school, but you should be able to study what you want to study. You should be able to learn from who you want to learn from, and be around the kind of peers that you really want to be around in a culture that you really value. So at least two true likely schools, and then I usually say six or seven of these should be target schools where your students selective stats, their SAT score, their GPA, their general academic profile is right in line with the average, or the middle 50% of what that school accepts and that data is publicly available. Any of those search engines that we mentioned earlier, pretty much any search engine, college search engine that you would Google, they all pull from the same set of data. They're just showing you that data in different ways. Right? So it doesn't really matter which one you go to, but a target school is really where your student is, right in line with what typically gets accepted at that school. And then the reach schools would be maybe three or four of them where your student is not quite up to the average, but hopefully not not too far away from it. And you know, there are going to be some schools that are, you know, the super reaches, the far reaches, like the Ivy League schools that have single digit acceptance rates. The vast majority of students do not get in. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't apply to them if it feels like a really good fit, but you should just manage your expectations. And you want to think about this like a portfolio. You wouldn't put all of your investments into the highest risk stocks. You really want to distribute your investments. So that's that's what we want to do with our school list. And then finally, the best resources. They come in all shapes and sizes and formats, but the best resource is the one that you or your student is actually going to use. Joanna, you mentioned this. There are going to be things that just feel easier for you. I have some students who prefer using the FISC guide to college is a print book, and just flipping through the pages, I have another person who likes using a website called College results.org which has a map feature where you can kind of zoom in on a certain area of the country and set some parameters and see what what comes up there. And then, you know, big future is the College Board search tool niche.com is also a really great one. And you know, some of them integrate reviews or different kind of search parameters that you can use, but there's no one that is better than the other. You should just use the one that you're you feel comfortable using. All right, we did have a lot of great questions from the audience that, of course, I stripped off of this recording for. You, but I wanted to plug again that we are pivoting to a live coaching model, and a lot of people are like, what's live coaching? I don't know if I have an hour of content, or even a half an hour of content, I just have, like, this one question. The one question is perfectly fine. I'll tell you in this session that we did, we had about three or four questions, and they took up about 20 minutes, you know, and we could have gone into a lot more detail and a lot more individualized kind of responses to those questions. So even if you just have, like, one question that you think is pretty simple, don't be shy and submit it on the form that'll be linked in the show notes, so that you can join me on the podcast, or, you know, one of my other experts, if I'm not the right person to answer your question, to really go through how we think about it, how we would encourage you to navigate the situation, because so many people are probably wondering the exact same thing, and they're going to benefit so much from you coming forward and saying, I have this question. Can somebody explain this to me? So please take advantage of that if it's relevant for you. All right, thank you, as always, for joining us. We'll see you next time bye.